In attempting to discover the parents of my 12th great-grandfather John Ive of Horsham, who married Elizabeth Jennyns alias Emery, I discovered some information about two Richard Ives of Horsham on WikiTree.
The manager called them Richard Ive the elder, who wrote his will in 1531, naming wife Elizabeth and a son Thomas (1), and Richard Ive, Jr. who married Joan, and wrote his will on 4 Mar 1545, probated 20 Jul 1546, and said that this will named his wife Joan.
Unfortunately, in doing some research myself, I realized there were two main errors: 1. The 1545 will was misattributed to Richard Ive, Jr., and 2. The statement that this will named his wife as Joan, when it did not. This created some knots that needed to be untangled.
Two Richard Ives appeared on the 1524 Lay Subsidy Roll for Sussex at Horsham, "Richard Ive" on East Street, and "Richard Ive, Jr." of West Street. They were therefore born by 1508, as you had to be aged 16 to be taxed (2). I have not been able to determine if "Richard Ive, Jr." is the same person who married Joan, or the third Richard Ive who I found, who married Alice.
I will call them Richard Ive #1, also known as the Elder, or Senior, both terms were used in his 1531 will, Richard Ive #2, who married Joan, and Richard Ive #3, who married Alice.
Richard Ive #1 wrote his will 3 Dec 1531, and named his wife Elizabeth, son John (unmarried), and daughter Elizabeth (unmarried), he does not allude to any other children. If these two children were just infants, as I suspect, it's possible that Elizabeth married John Alsborne 2 Nov 1550, and John, a barber, was buried 15 Nov 1550, both in Horsham.
Richard Ive #2 first appears in the burial record of his son Richard on 4 Jul 1543 "Rycherd the sone of Rycherd Ive and Johan hys wyfe."(3) He is next mentioned in the 16 Oct 1552 marriage record of his son, "Thomas the sone of Rycherd Ive, now dede, & Johan hys wyfe, now the wyfe of Wyllm. Elys, maryed Elysabth the dowghter of Henry Cadman and Phyllys hys wyfe." (4) So we know two things, Richard Ive #2 was deceased before 16 Oct 1552, and his widow Joan had married William Ellis. Joan was still living 7 Jan 1560/61 when she was godmother at the baptism of John Stere. (5) No burial record has been found for her. William Ellis was buried 15 Jun 1561 "Was buryed Wm Ellys, vir [married man], at Gildforde." (6)
The lovely Janet Wolfe, an expert in medieval English genealogy, was kind enough to transcribe the 1545 will for me:
In the name of god Amen the ____ iiijth day of Marche in the yer of our lord god a thousand fyve hundred fourtie and fyve I Richard Ive of Horsham in the dioc[ese] of Chichester of good Remembrance god belauded ordeyne and declare this my testa't and last will as folowyth First I commende and bequeve my sole to almyghtie god my creator and redemor Item I will my body to be buryed in the churcheyeard of Horsham aforesaide It' I will vnto the highe alter of the church of Horsham for offerringe and tythes necligently for forgoten (yf any be) iiij d It I will vnto Thomas my son xls to be payde vnto hym at the Full yers ende aft' my buriall It' I will vnto eche of my other sonnes xls tobe payde vnto eche of them at the full age of xviij yers Item I will that yf Thomas my son do dye before the full yers ende aft' my bryall then I will the saide xls to hym bequeved to be equally shyfted(?) betweyne all my other sonnes to be delyvered vnto eche of them at ther full age of xviij yers and if it happen any one or moe of my other sonnes to die befor ther full age of xviij yers then I will the Somme or sommes to hym or them willed to be equally shyfted betwixt all my other sones then levyng to be payde vnto eche of them at ther full age of xviij yers item I will to ether of my daughters xls to be payde to ether of them at the day of ther marriage yff it be before the full age of xxij yeres or at the age of xxij yeres and yff hit happyn any of my daughters one or mo to dye unmarryed befor the full age of xxijti yeres then I will the monye to hir or them so willed to be equally sheftyd be twyne all my other daughters then lyving to be paid to eche of them at the day of marriage or at the full age of xxijti yeres also I will to be bestowed at my buriall amongs poure peple vjs viijd The Reste of all my goods and the detts that be owen to me I will and bequethe to Als my Wyff whom I ordyn and mak my sole executrix & she therto to see my body to onnestly buryed & to pay all the dets that I do owe & the Reste to use as she doth think Beste & my said executrix happen to mary befor my test'mt be fully performed then I will that before the day of her mariage she shall delyver unto the hands & custody of my Supervisors or to any so moche money or goods in balew(?) as shall _______ to the rest of this my testament not yet then being not performed Item I will the said Alis my wyff & to her assignes all that my howse and gardyn thereto which I now dwell in the spac of x yeres next folowing after my decease & thereto perform the rest of any yeres of my obbet conteyned in the last will of my fathers and after the said x yeres to be exspyred yf my heyre be not dysposed to dwell in the said house hym selff I will that my wyff shall have the said house and garden yf she will geve or do therefor as any other body will geve wher of she shall ouer receve the therde part as hyr dower and to pay my heyr the other ii parts. Item I will that yf my supervysors or any of them do receve any somme or somes out of the hands of my executor befor the day of hyr marying as is befor saide then I will that he or they shall hold and paye the same to my children and to any of the ther portions as ys befor saide at the day of marriage or yers of age as ys aforsaid Item I ordeyn and make my welbelovyd in Xpe Thomas Olys(?) and John Jenyng my spervysors to whom I remitte full ___te in case befor expressed to se this my testamente to be treuely performed Itm yI will my table and trestylle in the hall and my grate chest to remayne behynde the dowor of the howse Itm I will to eche of my supervysors iij s iiij d These beying wytnesse _yr Herr Parchy__ ____ John ______ Thomas Olys(?) John Jenyng wt other
Probate
xx die mens Julij anno dni millimo quin__ xlvj(?) (1546?)
As you can see, the testator twice names his wife as Alice, and names only one child, a son, Thomas. He does mention "other sonnes" and "other daughters." (7) Therefore, this is Richard Ive #3 who was buried 18 Jun 1546 at Horsham as "Rycherd Ive, a shoemaker," (8) and his widow Alice married William Ellis on 13 Sep 1546 "was maryed Willm. Ellys to Ric. Ive love." (9) She was buried 26 Feb 1559/60 at Horsham, "Ales Ellis the wyffe of Wm Elles." (10) Their son Thomas is untraced.
This clearly shows that there were two William Ellises. As Alice was buried 26 Feb 1559/60, the first William Ellis, who died in 1561, would not have been called a married man. A burial record for the second William Ellis has not been found.
Richard Ive #1
Born by 1508, married Elizabeth, and had unmarried children John and Elizabeth at the time of his 1531 will. No further record for him or his wife.
1. John, perhaps the barber buried 15 Nov 1550 (11)
2. Elizabeth, perhaps married John Alsborne 2 Nov 1550 (12)
Richard Ive #2
Married Joan, and was deceased by 16 Oct 1552, Joan had married William Ellis #1 by the same date, and was living 7 Jan 1560/61.
1. Richard, buried 4 Jul 1543
2. Thomas, married Elizabeth Cadman 16 Oct 1552
3. Joan, married John Garland 30 Jan 1552/53 "Jhon Garlond, a Docheman, maryed Johan the dowghter of Rycherd Ive, now dede" (13)
Richard Ive #3
Married Alice, named Thomas and "other sons" and "other daughters" in his 4 Mar 1545 will, probated 20 Jul 1546, buried 18 Jun 1546, wife Alice married William Ellis #2 on 13 Sep 1546, she was buried 26 Feb 1559/60.
1. Thomas, untraced
Sadly, I haven't determined the relationship between these three Richard Ives, or the two William Ellises, or who the parents of John Ive are, and I'm unwilling to speculate....
(1) Consistory Court of Chichester, Registered Wills, Volume 2, page 111, FSL #00790522, Image 196 of 524, familysearch.org
(2) The lay subsidy rolls for the county of Sussex, 1524-25, Julian Cornwall, editor, Sussex Record Society, Volume LVI, 1956, page 83, familysearch.org
(3) The Parish Register of Horsham in the County of Sussex, 1541-1635, R. Garraway Rice, editor, Sussex Record Society, Volume XXI, 1915, page 294, archive.org
(4) St Mary the Virgin (Horsham, Sussex, England), Parish Register, page 80, no. 61, FHL #004428355, Image 70 of 1019, familysearch.org
(5) St Mary the Virgin (Horsham, Sussex, England), Parish Register, page 135, no. 122, FHL #004428355, Image 125 of 1019, familysearch.org
(6) St Mary the Virgin (Horsham, Sussex, England), Parish Register, FHL #004428355, Image 378 of 1019, familysearch.org
(7) Consistory Court of Chichester, Registered Wills, Volume 5, page 136, FSL #007905023, Images 149-150 of 525, familysearch.org
(8) St Mary the Virgin (Horsham, Sussex, England), Parish Register, page 49, no. 30, FHL #004428355, Image 42 of 1019, familysearch.org
(9) St Mary the Virgin (Horsham, Sussex, England), Parish Register, page 49, no. 42, FHL #004428355, Image 42 of 1019, familysearch.org
(10) St Mary the Virgin (Horsham, Sussex, England), Parish Register, page 129, no. 152, FHL #004428355, Image 118 of 1019, familysearch.org
(11) St Mary the Virgin (Horsham, Sussex, England), Parish Register, page 70, no. 75, FHL #004428355, Image 60 of 1019, familysearch.org
(12) St Mary the Virgin (Horsham, Sussex, England), Parish Register, page 70, no. 73, FHL #004428355, Image 60 of 1019, familysearch.org
(13) St Mary the Virgin (Horsham, Sussex, England), Parish Register, page 81, no. 103, FHL #004428355, Image 71 of 1019, familysearch.org
